Rick Wiles Promotes New “Prophecy” From Maurice Sklar

It is certainly true that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. The ones in the Christian church who have contributed the most to the area of false prophecy and leading the children of God astray in the past couple of decades are the ones who continue today to be the Pied Pipers of falsehood, profanely issued in the holy name of our Lord. So it was not surprising when someone pointed out a new “prophecy” had been issued by prolific false prophet Dr. Maurice Sklar. And it just seemed to fall into place that the main showcase for his issue of this would be Rick Wiles’  Trunews radio program, which has been for almost 15 years now a source of some of the most outlandish and self-serving blather ever to be labeled “Christian.”

I will go through some of this one hour interview from the March 18th 2014 Trunews broadcast, as it provides a unique opportunity to highlight the deep errors of both men and how profound is the damage they do to the Christian faith. How deeply both these men offend and profane the Lord Jesus Christ, and bring a torrent of  disrespect down upon Christians everywhere. Here we will examine lie after lie, heaped upon self-exaltation after self-exaltation, with the end result being the glorification of no one but these two men themselves.

Maurice Sklar InterviewTrunews radio March 18th 2014

Interview of Maurice Sklar :

http://www.trunews.com/Audio/3_18_14_tuesday_trunews2.mp3

I will keep a timeline for reference to the interview in the commentary.

0.00 – 2:22 Mr. Wiles retells the story of how his ministry was “birthed” by a calling from the Holy Spirit in a vision while working for TBN Christian network. Now it is a topic in itself how TBN has conducted itself since its inception by the late Dr. Paul Crouch, but it is sufficient for these purposes to realize TBN has been the source of some of the most profane false prophets the church has ever seen. Their star program, with by far the highest viewership, is This Is Your Day with Benny Hinn. Anyone who doesn’t see a huge red flag here need not continue with this commentary as it will be a waste of your time.

2:39 – 3:00 The self-exaltation of the false teacher often comes out early in his message, and this is no exception. After boasting of his own spiritual experience at TBN, he boasts about one his daughter had. “That same night, my daughter was visited by Jesus Christ. She said it wasn’t a dream.” So if it wasn’t a dream, the Lord Jesus Christ appeared in the flesh at her bedside? (please note: this is not about whether these things occurred or not, it is about whether a true man of God would be boasting about them, or even speaking about them in any manner.) The Lord revealed to her he would speak to her about the last days in dreams and visions. Her mission, and that of her father, would be to warn the body of Christ of the dire consequences coming to America if the country did not repent.

3:45 “Early September 1998 I walked out the door of TBN……this radio program was birthed on one station in Dallas………I’ve been on radio ever since, retelling the story”. Lets examine what Mr. Wiles was actually telling us at this time of the birth of his new radio show with its calling “to reveal the word of God in warning the nation to repentance.”

While I don’t know of the existence of any actual recordings of his early shows, I think we can be sure of what his main topic was in the first 12 to 15 months of the show: the Y2K “doomsday event” that was going to shut down computers worldwide and cause a “global economic and technological meltdown.”

His book “Judgment Day 2000 – How the Coming Computer Crash Will Radically Change Your Life” was released in 1998. You can still sometimes find it on Amazon, and it provides a great glimpse into the mind of one of the most popular false prophets of our times. It demonstrates how showmanship, not the truth, has always been the guiding light behind this man and the key to his popularity. Not much time needs to be wasted on this book, but suffice it to say that at 323 pages, it is one of the most elaborately detailed false prophecies of all recorded history.

Some chapters in his 1998 book speak of conspiracy theories he still today brings up on the radio show. The invasion of Russian Spetznatz commandos, the solar tornadoes, meteor storms, embedded microchips, Russian nukes, health care crisis, financial collapse, its all just the same stuff being recycled 15 years later in the hope no one notices.

It is important to see this, because armed with this knowledge of how his ministry came to be, one can be prepared to see the pattern and recognize it today. Then perhaps we can all decide for ourselves if this is a man who gets his information from God or from some other source.

6:50 – start of interview with Dr. Sklar (Wiles fittingly begins with what has become mandatory in the repertoire of the false prophet today, the tedious reference to Joel Chapter 2 v. 28-32 and its “old men will dream dreams, and young men will see visions” as a proof text for modern day prophets. It is nothing of the sort, and as Peter himself explained in his famous sermon, this was  fulfilled on the day of Pentecost itself, saying “this is that” which was uttered through the prophet Joel.  Acts 2:16-21.)

8:00 (Sklar begins by stating that he doesn’t have many prophetic dreams. When the Lord speaks to him it is in the form of visions or words. (Of course, Dr. Sklar, we must not think of anything from you as a mere “dream.” We need to clothe this in much finer linen than that. We need to use language that conveys “flashy reality” and the word “dreams” doesn’t elevate your experience in quite the way you intend to elevate it, Dr. Sklar.)

Sklar begins to read his vision:

. ………This week I had a dream.  It was a terribly frightening dream.  In it, I saw a huge angel standing suspended in the air over New York harbor.  It looked so large that it covered the night sky.  His body was clad in golden armor as if he was going to war.  His face and entire being were so bright that I could not gaze up at him for long.  White beams of light seemed to radiate outward from him in all directions. He was standing over the Statue of Liberty. It was night, but I could hardly see the lights around him coming from New York City as he blazed so brightly with divine light……

Really? We’re going to down this tired road again about the Statue of Liberty destruction vision that started in 1954 with A.A. Allen’s false vision of Liberty destroyed? This has been copied almost word for word by everyone in the false prophecy club for many years, including self-professed “watchman” Nathan Leal.  Anyone familiar with Leal will instantly recognize this is a copy of his “staggering” Statue of Liberty vision, and that both are clearly copies of Allen’s vision.

None of this is to suggest that the Statue of Liberty will never be destroyed. Or that if its destruction eventually occurs, that these prophets will be vindicated. Its about the ministry of Christian preachers, and whether  the commission to preach Christ has been overruled and changed in today’s church to permit a gospel of self to be taught.

Nathan’s drunken Statue of Liberty vision is below: *** http://watchmanscry.com/prophecy_liberty_drunk.html

A variation on this theme where Liberty is decapitated is related by Leal here: http://watchmanscry.com/article_liberty.html

Readers can view A.A.Allen’s original 1954 prophecy here: http://www.miraclevalley.net/gpage6.html and decide whether they think that Allen’s descendants should be sent all royalties and profits gained by Maurice Sklar and Nathan Leal copying his “vision.”

Oh, but the defender of the false prophets will rush in now to declare “That’s because God’s anointed are all being shown the same thing by the Lord.” No. Its because evil minds bent on removing the church from gospel truth think alike.

Readers can see the full Maurice Sklar dream, prophecy, vision, whatever you want to call it, here: http://lit4ever.org/revivalforum/index.php?topic=29448.0

There is virtually nothing new here. basically a new twist, with not only the Statue of Liberty getting whacked, but some novel twists added for color and to gain attention and personal exaltation: instead of the nerve gas enveloping the nation as Allen saw, Sklar posits that “giant rocket missiles” will deliver nuclear explosions.  But of course, not before the mandatory earthquake that literally splits the continent in two.

Well, how can you have a more colorful prophetic vision than one with nuclear explosions happening at the same time as a giant earthquake! Guaranteed to draw attention and glory. But as we will see from the teachings of the apostle Paul, the attention and glory wanted by the author is attention to himself and glory to his  ministry, not the Lord Jesus Christ or the gospel.

No dates are set in Sklar’s prophecy, nor any prophecies being released today.  As we have said often here, no dates will used by false prophets anymore. They too learn from their mistakes. Undated means impossible to prove false.

We have already seen in the past how Dr. Sklar has explained why his previous dated prophetic visions didn’t come to pass: because enough people prayed and God stayed his hand of judgment against the nation. So that will once again be what we hear from Dr. Sklar in future, when none of this new word comes to pass. Along with the fact that no date was placed on this new word, it gives Sklar two insurance policies against ever having to own up to his deceit. And worse, to continue down this terrible course he has chosen of defaming the Lord.

49:10 Dr. Sklar again plays on a source of great pride to him that often comes up in his interviews and published works: the claim that some years ago he was lifted up to heaven. Golly, how we lesser mortals must gush and lift up Maurice because he is such a spiritually advanced man that these lofty experiences are reserved for him and other great Christians like Rick Wiles. We can only sigh in admiration of these outstanding spiritual achievements.

A.A. Allen’s “prophetic” vision has now celebrated its 60th anniversary this year without fulfillment.

Since Sklar’s prophecy is just a variation on previous false prophecies given by his ministry, Leal’s ministry, A.A. Allen’s ministry, and countless others, I’ll leave it to the reader to decide how much time to spend on the details, but in summary we heard in the interview about 50 minutes of nothing but experiences of these two men. Wiles with the lofty experiences of him and his family members, and Sklar with his high definition visions and his luxury-class trip to heaven. The focus was entirely on spiritual experiences and how God has lifted them up to lofty positions in his church, and how they are “humbly” carrying out their Godly assignments and missions.

About 5 to 7 minutes is tacked on at the end where Sklar and Wiles both speak clearly about Christ, the cross, and the ACTUAL gospel. All in line with what deceivers do, as they come as angels of light, not wearing horns. Of course there will be some real gospel tacked on at the end.

I would like to spend some time unpacking some remarkable things Paul taught the church at Corinth. I think it speaks volumes about what we see with many of these false internet ministries today, and fits perfectly with this rather typical Wiles interview we are dealing with which was given on this so-called Christian radio show.

Paul To the Church At Corinth: “Beware of the Super-Apostles”

In 2 Corinth. Chap. 11 Paul puts out a very powerful word to the church about those who were coming to destroy the work done by Paul in planting the church there, and the work of the real apostles. These false apostles came in the name of Christ, and said all the right things to be believed, but their focus in a subtle way took Paul’s beloved congregation at Corinth  away from the Lord and onto themselves.

I marvel at Paul’s use of biting sarcasm at many points in his letters to Corinth. He calls these false apostles “super apostles.” (2 Cor. 11:5, 2 Cor. 12:11)

These false apostles use their spiritual experiences, or at least their versions of these events, to boast and lift themselves up. These super apostles in the apostolic age would go into the church as soon as Paul left, and undo what truth had been laid down, and replace it with error.  Nowhere more than at Corinth did this happen. There are many parallels to be seen between the church at Corinth and the modern day church’s lifting up of signs and wonders. As we will see clearly from Paul, this was not minor error that needed just a superficial adjustment, it was core error that was threatening to take the church away from Christ.

In 2 Cor. Chap. 11 verses. 7 to 15 Paul is outlining the contrast between the true apostles and the false apostles, who had come in claiming to be of Christ but who were not. The contrast Paul makes between the true and false apostles is to show that the true apostles were grounded in three things: truth, love, and humility. A true apostle will be humble to the point of being self-effacing. Just look at a teacher’s life. As John MacArthur points out:

Just look when you’re assessing whether someone is a true or a false teacher.  Do you see humility or do you see pride?  Do you see a person sacrificing his life to give away the truth with only regard for service to others?  Or do you see one who is building an empire, building an estate, becoming rich, one who is parading his…his authority, one who is always right, one who demands that we bow before him, one who wants almost to be worshiped and adored?  Those are the questions. *

When I read Paul’s letter to Corinth, and apply these standards here, I see clearly who is being lifted up by these men, and its not Christ. It is themselves. Please refer to my previous article on Maurice Sklar, where he describes his “visit to heaven” in revealing detail. Since he brought it up again, I guess it means he wants us to have another look at it. Some excerpts of his journey to heaven:

……….. we reached a flat plateau overlooking what looked like the Swiss or Bavarian Alps.  It was covered with perfectly manicured grass.  We were standing in front of a golden gate that had filigree work all over it.  Over the top was my name:  “Maury Sklar” engraved in that same kind of stone/glass/gold on a rectangular plate.  It was covered with precious stones and shimmered and glittered in the late afternoon sun.  I was in awe!……..

…………….To one side, there was a vault-like door, and in it were dozens of great stringed instruments.  Some had been made for me, and one place was open, where the Lord had promised me that He would make a violin for me and I could watch, after I get there to heaven!…………..

……………..He seemed like a Man now, though I knew He was the LORD.  He said to me, “Maury, I want you to see the Great Hall of the Crowns.”  Suddenly, we were at a large castle of some sort.  It looked like Buckingham Palace, Versailles, and the Taj Mahal all at the same time.  (I know that sounds strange, but that is what it looked like to me.)  I was stunned at the majesty of this building……………

……………..The angel quietly spoke in my ear.  This is a concert in your honor.  The composer, Gustav Mahler is here in heaven.  He has composed a symphony for you.  Then the Lord came out on stage and conducted!  As he entered, the whole audience bowed in worship and reverenced His Presence.  Then, when the music started, I went into a realm of ecstasy that I cannot describe in words.  But the music was like a living movie or a vision.  I listened and I saw many good things that I had done to love people on earth…………………….

The readers can safely decide for themselves who is being lifted up here. Is this not the same phenomenon Paul was dealing with in the church in Corinth and the invasion of the super apostles? The lifting up of one’s spiritual experiences, the exaltation of self, the boasting, all of these things are from the enemy Satan. These false teachers are not just misguided people with error in their doctrine, they are agents of the devil. Paul is saying that they are more than just gifted windbags, they are emissaries of Satan.

Paul didn’t pull any punches in speaking out about these types, because he knew how dangerous they are. When a man is full of himself, there is little room for the spirit of God to dwell in him.

13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. …..2 Cor. 11:13-15

Paul doesn’t care about being politically correct, and fears not to offend the sensibilities of those listening. Imagine the impact this had on those false teachers when his letters were read in the church. We need to emulate Paul, in that we need to take a stand against demonic influences taking hold in the church today. So many today recognize the error, but are so daunted by the possibility of being called a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, they look the other way.  The signs and wonder movement has made such inroads and gained so much territory and influence in the church in the past 100 years, that they are to an alarming extent able to control and prevent any serious opposition from forming against them and their movement.

If you speak out, realize that you will be called out as one who spreads disunity among the flock. You will be called a person with a “vendetta” against God’s anointed. Even those who normally have good discernment skills will say you are denying the “power” of the Holy Spirit. But lets use Paul as our guide in these matters: he refused to boast about his spiritual experiences, but instead happily boasted of his weaknesses.

30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 2 Cor. 11:20

But Paul was very glad to speak of his weaknesses. He knew the folly of boasting of one’s deeds and experiences after seeing the resurrected Lord. He is free in telling all he is a former blasphemer, a persecutor, a murderer, an enemy of Jesus Christ.  What Paul doesn’t want to do is boast about his credentials. And he could have easily done so. But instead, in verses 22 to 29, Paul tells of his hardships endured. Shipwrecks, lashings, hunger, thirst, cold, exposure, toil, hardship. Even being let down in a basket to escape Damascus. Paul is saying “I will boast of those things which show my weakness.”

Paul “Boasts”,  So That Corinth Will See the Error of Boasting

 

I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses— though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 2 Cor. Chapter 12 v.1-6

In further exhibition of his ability to use emphatic language that really “bites” and impacts the listener, here Paul is actually “boasting” in order to compare righteous boasting for the glory of God, to the destructive boasting of the false teachers about their spiritual experiences.

Of all the men there, Paul had the most reason to boast of his spiritual experiences. He had actually been lifted up to heaven. He amazingly describes this in the third person. Its only by verse 7 that we realize he is referring to himself and his experience! He refuses to give detail, not even saying if it was in body or spirit when he was lifted up! Contrast this to modern day accounts of “trips to heaven” and the intricate detail we are given by those who would exalt themselves in the telling of these things.

Another sharp contrast between Paul and what today’s false teachers do. Paul’s lifting up to heaven had  occurred fourteen years before. Can a modern day “prophet” or “apostle” not even speak a word about an experience like this for fourteen years? And even then, Paul was very reluctantly speaking of it to hammer home a point to a church that was losing the gospel of Christ to the visions and signs.

On top of this is the fact that there is serious doubt about the truthfulness of modern stories of trips to heaven, but that’s another topic altogether. Paul simply closes the book on what must have been a truly wondrous event, by saying he heard things “which man must not utter”. (2 Cor. 12:5) No lifting up of self here, no prideful bragging about “look what God did for me.” Quite the opposite: ……. “we must not speak of such things. ”

………..if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me.

Paul really had good reason to boast, and it would have been entirely truthful if he had done so, but he underlines the point that we are not to raise up our experiences high onto lofty places, lest no man then exalt the man and the experience. What a lesson for today’s false teachers. Then Paul in my view really makes an emphatic statement by telling that he would rather boast about the thorn sent to him:

v. 7-10 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

Three times the great Apostle Paul prayed that God would remove the thorn, and God did not relent. What a blow to the gospel of “name it and claim it!” What a blow to the word faith healers like Benny Hinn! Who had more faith than Paul, who had seen the resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus? The idea that God’s GRACE is sufficient really grinds in the ears of the false teachers.

The end result: Paul glorified God in taking the suffering as God’s way of preventing him from becoming boastful! Today’s false teachers do exactly the opposite: they use spiritual experiences in order that they may be exalted by their fellow church members! In this personal uplifting, church members are steered away from Jesus Christ, and onto doctrines of man.

The church at Corinth was so much like today’s church. Common distinguishing markers were infatuation with the spiritual gifts, and esteeming one another by the measure of each other’s spiritual experiences. Paul saw so much disorder at Corinth he had to implement rules about orderly conduct. (1 Cor. 14:33)

Paul had to step in and make rules to tame the unruly and unholy desire to make the gifts the center of the church. He ruled that only two, and at most three, should speak in tongues at a service. Only one could speak at a time. Another must always interpret what is spoken in a manner intelligible to the members. (1 Cor. 14:27-28)

How this rule is openly flaunted by churches today! Any church, and by extension, any internet ministry, that conducts itself in a chaotic manner is to be avoided. Jumping from one story line to another is one example of discord and confusion we see with many of the news/gospel programs on the air today. Fifty minutes of human experience mixed with 5 minutes of gospel, and a Christian label attached to it, is standard fare, and lapped up like milk by the followers, when it is actually spiritual poison. These are things that are sewn from the seeds of Satan’s attack on the modern day church, and as demonic influences they have made huge inroads and scored big successes.

Since the closing of the Canon of scripture, Satan has been focusing his schemes on ways to steer men away from the gospel, because only by doing so can he claim victory. Satan is totally comfortable with today’s Christian “visions and dreams” ministries. Satan wins every time he can steal an hour of a person’s time by having them listen to man-centered doctrine concerning trivia such as visions of earthquakes, tsunamis, suitcase nukes, nephilim, Obama’s communist leanings, or whatever the soup-de-jour of the Rick Wiles-Steve Quayle-Nathan Leal gang happens to be on any given day.

How powerfully Paul puts this to the church in Cor. 11 verses 3 and 4.

But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

Here Paul is talking about some men who had come into the church, supposedly  possessing a higher authority, a higher pedigree, a higher experience. They were preaching another gospel, another Jesus, another spirit. Here we see Satan at work, leading the church away from her steadfast devotion to Christ. These were people who sounded like apostles, and seemed to say all the right things, but were actually leading people astray.

“And You Put Up With It Readily Enough”

And with his biting sarcasm, Paul drills home the point by saying “and you put up with it readily enough.” 

So many today think that Pentecost and the early days of the church was a time where the “outpouring” of the Holy Spirit had caused such an emotional stir that it lent an air and attitude of wide openness and permissiveness in points of doctrine. That it was a time when “anything goes” and “just let the spirit lead you where it will” were the guiding affections. Quite the opposite was true. The doctrine of the church was set, in the person and work of Christ, as expounded by the apostles. Nowhere was it acceptable to adapt the Christian faith to go in any direction that the believer “felt led.”

The way the foundations of the church were laid down it was never intended to be a free-for-all where anyone who claimed to have the spirit could just say whatever he wanted to.

41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. Acts 2

But soon the “super apostles” led the church away from its foundational roots because of a fascination with gifts and personal power. The false apostles hated Paul because they hated the message he brought of humility and suffering for the gospel. “We’re a power Jesus” they cried. There was little place in this boasting, super Christian mentality for the suffering of the cross. They had this other gospel, this new way of relating to God, and a magnetic and alluring wonder-worker fervor had settled in through the satanic false teachers. And thus, they had little tolerance for Paul’s message of “strength in weakness,” thinking it foolishness.

In reading these remarkable verses, we see in Corinth they were already breaking away from the gospel of the cross, and setting up this new regime which was far from Christ-centered. It was man-centered and focused on the evaluation of each man in the church according to the perceived value of his spiritual gifts and experiences, and the elevation of each to that particular level of supposed spiritual attainment.

One commentator has put it this way: “Any Corinthian with a spark of humanity, not to say Christian conviction, left in him must have blushed to see held up before him the picture of himself in his conceited self-importance and the picture of Paul and his apostolic colleagues, the despised, scorned, suffering, but undaunted servants of Christ, the church, and mankind.”

Lest anyone be deceived by the false apostles, the deceitful workers, Paul points out the folly of following anyone but Christ:

for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? 1 Cor. 3:3-4

For the foundation of faith cannot be laid on the shifting sands of human experiences, but must be laid upon the bedrock of the gospel of Jesus Christ, once for all delivered to the saints:

12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 1 Cor. 3:12-13

Today we see the extreme evolution of these early church errors into a prideful signs, wonders, healing, and tongues mania which is responsible for turning more souls away from Christ and the Word of God than even Satan himself could have dreamed for. The showboats with the flashiest tales of signs and wonders still rule.

And as in Corinth, we put up with it readily enough.

 

All blessings in Christ,

JD Ellis

 

* John MacArthur – Grace To You Ministry…. “Marks of a False Apostle.”

 

 

 

 

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84 Responses to Rick Wiles Promotes New “Prophecy” From Maurice Sklar

  1. tsimitpo says:

    You sure seem to enjoy judging the words and actions of others. Methinks you’d be better off spending less time praying for others and more time getting to know the heart of God personally. For one who claims to hold God’s Holy Word in such high esteem, I wonder why it isn’t more evident by the grace you extend to others…

    Shalom.

  2. Tsimitpo:
    Its not “grace” to acquiesce to a person who is undermining scriptural truth and supporting the defamation of God’s word. As far as getting to “know the heart” of God, which heart would you be referring to? The heart that is unoffended and declaring no wrath for people who stuff their own senseless thoughts and foolish dreams into his mouth? That unoffended God doesn’t exist. Monstrous false prophets like Leal, Wiles, Perez, Quayle, Sklar, and the whole lot of them are responsible for creating this false God, and you are the victim. But you deserve to be their victim, because you love to have it so.

    And the solution is so simple: follow God’s written word, not man. But you would insist that would be un-Christian and uncharitable, and we can’t have that. No sir, we must at all costs not offend the oracles of the internet by pointing out their error. God, as you often put it, is perfectly capable of sorting things out for himself, and apparently according to you doesn’t need defending:

    Your quote…(….”I appreciate your desire to protect God’s reputation through your works, but I have seen first-hand that God is well able to do that without our performance and still work through flawed people”) What a crazy, upside down view of the Christian faith you have. “Defend internet oracles?——Yes! Defend God’s word?—–No!”

    Repent brother,
    JD

  3. tsimitpo says:

    You’re myopic disgust for anything that doesn’t meet your interpretation of scripture just leaves me speechless. If you ever pray over a post before posting it, I question who is answering you, because it certainly isn’t the one who challenged throwing the first stone at the adulterous woman.

  4. Tsimitpo:
    Jesus said “whoever is without sin be the first to cast a stone”. Surely you don’t think he was condoning the sin of this woman? So you think this is a blanket approval of adultery and sexual sin, because Jesus said this?

    He was avoiding a snare set by the Pharisees, who were trying to get him to either condemn her, in which case they would have accused him of being inconsistent with the behavior he had already shown the harlots and publicans, and inconsistent with the meekness a Messiah should demonstrate. They would have claimed he was interfering in affairs legislated only to the Roman soldiers.

    If he had acquitted her, they would have claimed he was an enemy of the law of Moses. He would have been accused of countenancing sinful behavior, unbecoming behavior for a prophet.

    This was his way out, and it was brilliant. And yes, I pray to that God, not the false one you have bought into who condones sinful behavior, and gives just a “nod and a wink” to ones who smear his name.

    JD

  5. tsimitpo says:

    Without the covering of the blood of Christ, your “righteous” works – and ALL of ours – are but filthy rags. That’s not called condoning – it’s called undeserved forgiveness. For some reason you just feel the need to spin the words of others to elevate yourself and lower them.

    Human pride is probably the number one subject of the Bible, and I am apparently not the only one in this discussion with that problem.

  6. tsimitpo:
    The people who frequently listen to the broadcasts of the prophetic types we are discussing here are doing the elevating and lowering themselves. They lower themselves every time they spend an hour listening to the total garbage that is spewed out in the guise of being the words of the Lord himself, and they elevate themselves every time they open the book that has the ACTUAL TRUE words of God in it. It is their choice. But I’m not at all OK with the perpetrators of this spiritual fraud fooling so may people, (yourself included) and no one calling them on it and warning the flock. So that’s what I do. I call them on it. It is like water off a duck’s back if I am criticized for doing so.

    If you are truly aggrieved and feeling slandered by my characterization of you as being “OK” with the prophecy which I have clearly demonstrated in all my articles to fulfill the biblical standards of being false prophecy, now is your chance to show everyone here you oppose these prophets. Feel free to clearly state your opposition to them here and now, by naming names like the Apostles and some in the O.T. did. (Gal. 2:11-14) (II Tim. 4:10) (I Tim. 1: 18-20) (II Tim. 2:15-18) (II Tim. 4:14-15) (III John 9) (Num. 22-25) (Jude I 1) (II Sam. 12:7). It is not enough to broadly hint at those who are ravaging the flock. They must be named so that the sheep may be protected.

    But please, no equivocation about trying to justify their doing so on the grounds that it brings some supposed benefit to the kingdom. It is slanderous of the Lord to propose that he wrote his unequivocal hatred for false prophecy in his scripture, both throughout the Old Testament and New Testament, but has somehow miraculously done an about-face and now promotes the use of the exact same form of evil by these men because it has “redeeming kingdom value”.

    God never promotes and encourages sin to bring about good. God never would allow his own elect people to be subjected to what his Son warned them to avoid, to bring about some supposed “greater good”. God often will use bad people committing bad acts to bring about some good result for his people, but he will never harm his own with the poison of false prophecy to achieve this. That would contradict his nature of being all good and unable to promote sin, and completely contradict his numerous biblical warnings to avoid false prophets. If we are obedient and avoid the false prophets, and abandon their false teachings, then how would they be able to bring us this “greater kingdom good” you often speak of?

    Now is your chance to condemn the false prophets, or forever hold your peace. There is no “middle ground”. You are either for them, or against them. Having said that, I am quite confident you will find some way of finding middle ground here. You are a master equivocator and very advanced in that art. It is extremely rare in Christians today to find bold, uncompromising individuals who are willing to state that there is only black or white when it comes to biblical standards and obedience to God’s law, and there is no gray. It is a flight of fancy to think that one can successfully straddle the fence and keep both options open in respect to God’s written word and the esteem with which we embrace it. .

    JD

  7. tsimitpo says:

    I have not personally witnessed these men committing the unrepentant sin that you claim to have, and thus will not give it any more credence than such. I don’t listen to ANY “ministry” that doesn’t preach repentance of sin and that Christ ALONE can save. I don’t give a second to anyone who even hints that knowing the future, having survival foods for months and years on end, storing up gold and silver, or having a super-safe bunker deep underground – is of any help to one’s eternal soul – other than perhaps being used as a tool of ministry for the lost. However, when message of the corruption of the world and the admonition that we’re living in the last days (I Peter 4:7) is used as a springboard to make God and the blood of Jesus the number one priority to get taken care of – I WILL NOT condemn them because I KNOW, KNOW, KNOW that God can use [even] them to reach the seeking and the lost.

    For myself, I very rarely tune in to any of these guys BECAUSE I’m not interested in hearing about the same dreams over and over, but I respect the fact that I’ve never ever heard them even suggest that a soul could be saved apart from through the blood of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sin.

    You should be shaking in your boots that your personal vendetta against them – and it IS personal, no matter which way you try to dress it up with scripture – could very well be hindering the part of their message that belongs to the Holy Spirit. You CANNOT POSSIBLY know that it’s not because you are only human and have foolish pride and blind spots like all the rest of us.

    If they were not pointing people to Christ as priority number one among all the other stuff they talk about, it would be a completely different story, but that has simply NOT been the case in my experience, and you have never proven it to be otherwise.

    I pray that the Holy Spirit shines the light of truth on anyone who visits your site and that God’s will is done on earth as it is in heaven. Praise the holy lamb of God.

  8. Tsimitpo:
    We were never discussing “what you have observed.” That is a complete red herring. Why would I ever base a discussion or an article on what somebody else has observed? I have no idea what you have or have not observed, and honestly I wouldn’t give a dime for your powers of observation.

    Thank you for verifying what many of us suspected. That you are unwilling to uphold biblical standards about false prophecy. That someone can say “God told me” and the words fail by not coming to pass, and that person is in your estimation not only not a false prophet but also I will go to hell for declaring them to be what God has said in his word that they are!!

    Finally we get to the truth!!!!!

    My blog is not intended for people who can look at Jer. 23:32

    Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” declares the Lord. “They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least,” declares the Lord.

    OR

    Deut. 18:22

    22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously, so do not be alarmed.

    …………and come away claiming they have “not observed” any breaking of the biblical law by these prophets of the internet. This blog is for people capable of thinking outside the narrow confines of the boxes created for them by their slave masters, the oracles of the Internet spoken of on these blog pages. Come on now, the truth: You’ve never really read any of the articles here, have you???

    I have substantiated with hard evidence so many cases of the people in question stating God told them certain things would happen within certain time frames and these things DID NOT COME TO PASS. That is the biblical test. For you to just blissfully deny you have “seen” any of these people fail the biblical test is just absurd on the face of it. Or else it proves you have never read any of the articles at this blog which you feel so free to cut down, while condemning its author to the fires of hell.

    This is dangerous foolishness on your part to assert that Christians can freely imbibe the dream and vision foolishness of the prophetic ministries of the internet in whatever measures desired because God has ordained good to arise out of the sin. Are we to frequent houses of prostitution because God may be using the prostitutes in them as well for some hidden good?? Then wouldn’t all association with sin be profitable because some prophet or their followers have ordained that God is using it for our good, and we should feel free to indulge, because “all that wholesome goodness” will surely rub off on us, won’t it???

    Somebody pass the oxygen. Something is sucking the air out of the room. Its like my mind just flashed on a scene from “The Incubus.”

    JD

  9. tsimitpo says:

    If you don’t believe God has ever spoken to you, then you don’t know his voice.

    I have never said I am unwilling to uphold God’s standard for false prophecy. I don’t believe it has occurred. All I have to do is observe how you have responded to me in this discussion to recognize that you are not a good discerner.

    You have borne false witness about my words, which makes you a liar. And there is NO sin that is cause for gloating, which you clearly believe you have cause for.

    I have given you ample opportunity to communicate honestly and with humility and you have refused to time and again. God gets no glory from your prideful boasting.

    To everyone else who might happen upon this thread – I pray that the Holy Spirit guards your heart as you wade through the self-righteousness you find here and I pray for God’s mercy over anything I’ve written that is self-serving. I just want God to be lifted up, and not man. Please don’t be fooled by the cunning and deceitful manner in which JD represents the words and motives of others to elevate himself. That’s my discernment – God will be his judge.

  10. Tsimitpo:
    Quote: …….“If you don’t believe God has ever spoken to you, then you don’t know his voice……”

    Wow. You are just trying so hard aren’t you? I have stated repeatedly on this blog that God speaks to us through his written word. THAT IS HIS VOICE.

    So its not about what God’s word says. That’s what I thought. Its all about how you “FEEL” and how only spiritual types like yourself actually get the bonus of actually “hearing” God’s voice. Get over your sense of elevated spiritual importance, and get into God’s word. The day I see you actually write something that upholds the beauty and integrity of the word of God is when I will know there is some hope for you.

    You were just a few hours ago given a perfect opportunity to demonstrate in words that you uphold the biblical ideal of false prophecy and you did not do so. I was doing everything, almost pleading with you, to take the opportunity to settle for all of us once and for all that you do in fact support everything the Bible says on false prophets. You did nothing even remotely like it. You simply stated that you had not “witnessed any.” Yet you feel the Christian calling to call me a liar for simply reporting what happened, i.e.: “you did not, and do not, uphold the biblical understanding of false prophecy.” I stand by my comments that you do not uphold the biblical teaching on false prophecy. As you always state, God will determine who is lying here.

    I think its noticeable as well to all that you are now calling me a liar. If you feel the heat its not surprising.

    You need seriously to get over this puerile “offended” snit fit you are having and OBEY AND UPLIFT THE WORD OF GOD.

    JD

  11. tsimitpo says:

    Matthew 7:1-5 – you may convince yourself that you know what it says, but you demonstrate a lack of understanding it. This tremendously unfortunate fact alone is all the evidence anyone should need to determine that you are NOT led by the Holy Spirit, but are playing the role of an internet hit man. You seem to enjoy repetitive rants about others “not living a Godly Christian life” or not honoring God’s Word without recognizing your own hypocrisy in the un-Christlike way you handle it. I don’t see how anyone could come to any conclusion other than that such a self-righteous attitude cannot be rewarded by God’s grace, which might explain why you’re not getting any traction in this arrogant, hateful, and judgmental vendetta.

    I wish God would use anyone other than me to deliver this message, because i am so far from perfect myself and am most inadequate for such a task. However, the lack of an ability to use scripture to interpret scripture has driven you to slander some who are leading people to the Jesus Christ of the Bible – not some unfamiliar Christ. There’s a lot more to recognizing a false prophet than having a personality conflict with them or an intellectually-based misunderstanding of their words to be a specific foretelling and not just their interpretation of a dream or vision that aligns with scripture (I’ve NEVER heard them claim their interpretations or revelations to be above God’s holy written word – EVER). That alone doesn’t confirm them to be good teachers, but it doesn’t make them agents of the enemy, either.

    For a more detailed explanation than what you’ve honed in on in recognizing a false prophet or teacher, see http://www.gotquestions.org/false-teachers.html.

  12. Tsimitpo:
    You state:

    “Matthew 7:1-5 – you may convince yourself that you know what it says, but you demonstrate a lack of understanding it.”

    I don’t by any means know all there is to know about scripture, as that would be an impossible task for one lifetime. But I do know that the passage you quote here is without any question to the serious student, NOT a prohibition against judging. It refers to the kind of judging we are to do. It tells us that with the same judgment we judge others, we shall also be judged. So for me to judge that someone is teaching things which fall outside the boundaries of scripture, means simply that I shall also be judged if I stray from scripture. There is of course a lot more to the passage, but since you seem to want to use the verses to condemn all judgment, I won’t cast pearls before swine and become argumentative and waste my entire day trying to convince you that judgment is NOT being condemned here.

    Quote: “……you are playing the role of an internet hit man.”…….

    I do not shrink from the biblical duty to warn others when scripture is being violated by teaching ministries with the label “Christian’ on their letterheads.

    Quote:

    ….”There’s a lot more to recognizing a false prophet than having a personality conflict with them or an intellectually-based misunderstanding of their words to be a specific foretelling and not just their interpretation of a dream or vision that aligns with scripture (I’ve NEVER heard them claim their interpretations or revelations to be above God’s holy written word – EVER).”

    You really amaze me. So because a false prophet does not actually raise a flag on their website that states in bold lettering “false prophet at work here” then according to you, its “no harm, no foul.” You add that they have not held their dreams/visions to be “ABOVE” scripture? So what? OF COURSE they wouldn’t do that. No prophet in the bible ever claimed that his prophecy overrides what is written in scripture and I’m not aware of any modern day prophet who would be so foolish and arrogant to claim his words were HIGHER than scripture. The point is they hold them to be EQUAL to scripture. As the website that you reference here , gotquestions.org says, ……..”No utterance of man should be considered equal to or above the written Word. We must hold to the Word that God has already given and commit ourselves to sola scriptura — Scripture alone……”

    The internet prophets have clearly said that “GOD HIMSELF GAVE ME THE DREAM/VISION”. If you deny that than you are wasting everyone’s time here. It is clear to EVERYONE that they claim to get their dreams and visions from God. Even Nathan Leal himself would not deny that he makes that claim. Please tell me how God himself speaking through dreams and visions would not be on a level AT LEAST EQUAL in authority to what he has put in his written word? That is utter nonsense, to think that God has different “levels” of authority when he speaks. So God can’t be COMPLETELY TRUSTED when he speaks to the internet prophets. He might be speaking to the prophets with a “lesser authority”. When God speaks to you, does he speak with a “lesser authority” than scripture? Or maybe God “has trouble” getting through his clear meaning, and “struggles” to penetrate his meaning into the dream of his “prophet.” Did God in the bible ever have any trouble getting his meaning through to one of his prophets, whether by dream or vision? No, he didn’t. What foolishness.

    We should leave it up to what the false prophets say about themselves and give our stamp of approval to their self-assessment? How many false prophets would be exposed if we did that as Christians? You think that would fulfill the biblical mandate to warn about false prophets?

    The article you referenced from Got Questions is very sound in clarifying what things would immediately give away a false prophet. If they openly deny the deity of Christ, the Trinity, or some fundamental Christian doctrine of course they are false teachers. Does this encompass all we need to determine false prophecy? Of course not. The author of the article would be the first to tell you any person who fits the biblical definition of false prophet is a false prophet. If you reference gotquestions. org further, you will see they say prophecy has ended, and God is not giving “new revelation” today. Exactly what I believe and what is clearly stated in the closing verses of scripture in Rev. 22.

    I have repeatedly pointed out the biblical passages which clearly state that when someone declares “thus sayeth the Lord” and what is stated DOES NOT COME TO PASS, they are a false prophet. But when I plead with you to firmly state whether this applies to the internet prophetic gang, you fail to take the opportunity to state affirmatively that you would agree if what they stated God has told them failed to come to pass they should be treated as false prophets.

    And because of this failure or reluctance on your part, to respond in the affirmative to scriptural authority being justly applied to the internet prophetic crew, I simply state what appears evident from your remarks – that you don’t demonstrate that you uphold scriptural authority in respect to false prophecy. Then you take that as Carte Blanche to bring out the crude slurs and falsely accuse me of slandering you. Like I always try to tell you and others here, he who does not fully support scriptural mandates DENIES scriptural mandates.

    You waver between two responses. First you state you “have never seen them state anything” against biblical mandates. Then when you realize my blog is full of documented, verifiable evidence of them doing this, you revert to argument two, which in a nutshell amounts to this: “if they do it, I will not object to it because it fulfills a higher purpose God has in mind.”

    You know what? Against my better judgment I’m actually going to turn the ball over to your court one last time, and ask you to clarify. Do you think there are false prophets working today? If so, please name them. And please, ONLY PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL ALIVE. I and the readers have no desire to take a stroll down memory lane. And obviously ones who have at least the outward appearance of being true Christian ministries. No JW, no Mormons.

    I’ll even give you some biblical guidelines before you answer. If your answer is you “don’t worry about false prophecy”, or a response that has the same virtual import as such, that is unbiblical. It nullifies the fact that Jesus and his apostles spent a great deal of time teaching against it and warning about it. It declares in essence: “little impact” when Christ taught “huge impact – heed my warnings.”

    For all the readers out there, your answer should solidify any feelings one way or the other whether you support biblical teachings concerning false prophecy.

    JD

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