It is certainly true that you can’t teach an old dog new tricks. The ones in the Christian church who have contributed the most to the area of false prophecy and leading the children of God astray in the past couple of decades are the ones who continue today to be the Pied Pipers of falsehood, profanely issued in the holy name of our Lord. So it was not surprising when someone pointed out a new “prophecy” had been issued by prolific false prophet Dr. Maurice Sklar. And it just seemed to fall into place that the main showcase for his issue of this would be Rick Wiles’ Trunews radio program, which has been for almost 15 years now a source of some of the most outlandish and self-serving blather ever to be labeled “Christian.”
I will go through some of this one hour interview from the March 18th 2014 Trunews broadcast, as it provides a unique opportunity to highlight the deep errors of both men and how profound is the damage they do to the Christian faith. How deeply both these men offend and profane the Lord Jesus Christ, and bring a torrent of disrespect down upon Christians everywhere. Here we will examine lie after lie, heaped upon self-exaltation after self-exaltation, with the end result being the glorification of no one but these two men themselves.
Maurice Sklar Interview – Trunews radio March 18th 2014
Interview of Maurice Sklar :
I will keep a timeline for reference to the interview in the commentary.
0.00 – 2:22 Mr. Wiles retells the story of how his ministry was “birthed” by a calling from the Holy Spirit in a vision while working for TBN Christian network. Now it is a topic in itself how TBN has conducted itself since its inception by the late Dr. Paul Crouch, but it is sufficient for these purposes to realize TBN has been the source of some of the most profane false prophets the church has ever seen. Their star program, with by far the highest viewership, is This Is Your Day with Benny Hinn. Anyone who doesn’t see a huge red flag here need not continue with this commentary as it will be a waste of your time.
2:39 – 3:00 The self-exaltation of the false teacher often comes out early in his message, and this is no exception. After boasting of his own spiritual experience at TBN, he boasts about one his daughter had. “That same night, my daughter was visited by Jesus Christ. She said it wasn’t a dream.” So if it wasn’t a dream, the Lord Jesus Christ appeared in the flesh at her bedside? (please note: this is not about whether these things occurred or not, it is about whether a true man of God would be boasting about them, or even speaking about them in any manner.) The Lord revealed to her he would speak to her about the last days in dreams and visions. Her mission, and that of her father, would be to warn the body of Christ of the dire consequences coming to America if the country did not repent.
3:45 “Early September 1998 I walked out the door of TBN……this radio program was birthed on one station in Dallas………I’ve been on radio ever since, retelling the story”. Lets examine what Mr. Wiles was actually telling us at this time of the birth of his new radio show with its calling “to reveal the word of God in warning the nation to repentance.”
While I don’t know of the existence of any actual recordings of his early shows, I think we can be sure of what his main topic was in the first 12 to 15 months of the show: the Y2K “doomsday event” that was going to shut down computers worldwide and cause a “global economic and technological meltdown.”
His book “Judgment Day 2000 – How the Coming Computer Crash Will Radically Change Your Life” was released in 1998. You can still sometimes find it on Amazon, and it provides a great glimpse into the mind of one of the most popular false prophets of our times. It demonstrates how showmanship, not the truth, has always been the guiding light behind this man and the key to his popularity. Not much time needs to be wasted on this book, but suffice it to say that at 323 pages, it is one of the most elaborately detailed false prophecies of all recorded history.
Some chapters in his 1998 book speak of conspiracy theories he still today brings up on the radio show. The invasion of Russian Spetznatz commandos, the solar tornadoes, meteor storms, embedded microchips, Russian nukes, health care crisis, financial collapse, its all just the same stuff being recycled 15 years later in the hope no one notices.
It is important to see this, because armed with this knowledge of how his ministry came to be, one can be prepared to see the pattern and recognize it today. Then perhaps we can all decide for ourselves if this is a man who gets his information from God or from some other source.
6:50 – start of interview with Dr. Sklar (Wiles fittingly begins with what has become mandatory in the repertoire of the false prophet today, the tedious reference to Joel Chapter 2 v. 28-32 and its “old men will dream dreams, and young men will see visions” as a proof text for modern day prophets. It is nothing of the sort, and as Peter himself explained in his famous sermon, this was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost itself, saying “this is that” which was uttered through the prophet Joel. Acts 2:16-21.)
8:00 (Sklar begins by stating that he doesn’t have many prophetic dreams. When the Lord speaks to him it is in the form of visions or words. (Of course, Dr. Sklar, we must not think of anything from you as a mere “dream.” We need to clothe this in much finer linen than that. We need to use language that conveys “flashy reality” and the word “dreams” doesn’t elevate your experience in quite the way you intend to elevate it, Dr. Sklar.)
Sklar begins to read his vision:
. ………This week I had a dream. It was a terribly frightening dream. In it, I saw a huge angel standing suspended in the air over New York harbor. It looked so large that it covered the night sky. His body was clad in golden armor as if he was going to war. His face and entire being were so bright that I could not gaze up at him for long. White beams of light seemed to radiate outward from him in all directions. He was standing over the Statue of Liberty. It was night, but I could hardly see the lights around him coming from New York City as he blazed so brightly with divine light……
Really? We’re going to down this tired road again about the Statue of Liberty destruction vision that started in 1954 with A.A. Allen’s false vision of Liberty destroyed? This has been copied almost word for word by everyone in the false prophecy club for many years, including self-professed “watchman” Nathan Leal. Anyone familiar with Leal will instantly recognize this is a copy of his “staggering” Statue of Liberty vision, and that both are clearly copies of Allen’s vision.
None of this is to suggest that the Statue of Liberty will never be destroyed. Or that if its destruction eventually occurs, that these prophets will be vindicated. Its about the ministry of Christian preachers, and whether the commission to preach Christ has been overruled and changed in today’s church to permit a gospel of self to be taught.
Nathan’s drunken Statue of Liberty vision is below: *** http://watchmanscry.com/prophecy_liberty_drunk.html
A variation on this theme where Liberty is decapitated is related by Leal here: http://watchmanscry.com/article_liberty.html
Readers can view A.A.Allen’s original 1954 prophecy here: http://www.miraclevalley.net/gpage6.html and decide whether they think that Allen’s descendants should be sent all royalties and profits gained by Maurice Sklar and Nathan Leal copying his “vision.”
Oh, but the defender of the false prophets will rush in now to declare “That’s because God’s anointed are all being shown the same thing by the Lord.” No. Its because evil minds bent on removing the church from gospel truth think alike.
Readers can see the full Maurice Sklar dream, prophecy, vision, whatever you want to call it, here: http://lit4ever.org/revivalforum/index.php?topic=29448.0
There is virtually nothing new here. basically a new twist, with not only the Statue of Liberty getting whacked, but some novel twists added for color and to gain attention and personal exaltation: instead of the nerve gas enveloping the nation as Allen saw, Sklar posits that “giant rocket missiles” will deliver nuclear explosions. But of course, not before the mandatory earthquake that literally splits the continent in two.
Well, how can you have a more colorful prophetic vision than one with nuclear explosions happening at the same time as a giant earthquake! Guaranteed to draw attention and glory. But as we will see from the teachings of the apostle Paul, the attention and glory wanted by the author is attention to himself and glory to his ministry, not the Lord Jesus Christ or the gospel.
No dates are set in Sklar’s prophecy, nor any prophecies being released today. As we have said often here, no dates will used by false prophets anymore. They too learn from their mistakes. Undated means impossible to prove false.
We have already seen in the past how Dr. Sklar has explained why his previous dated prophetic visions didn’t come to pass: because enough people prayed and God stayed his hand of judgment against the nation. So that will once again be what we hear from Dr. Sklar in future, when none of this new word comes to pass. Along with the fact that no date was placed on this new word, it gives Sklar two insurance policies against ever having to own up to his deceit. And worse, to continue down this terrible course he has chosen of defaming the Lord.
49:10 Dr. Sklar again plays on a source of great pride to him that often comes up in his interviews and published works: the claim that some years ago he was lifted up to heaven. Golly, how we lesser mortals must gush and lift up Maurice because he is such a spiritually advanced man that these lofty experiences are reserved for him and other great Christians like Rick Wiles. We can only sigh in admiration of these outstanding spiritual achievements.
A.A. Allen’s “prophetic” vision has now celebrated its 60th anniversary this year without fulfillment.
Since Sklar’s prophecy is just a variation on previous false prophecies given by his ministry, Leal’s ministry, A.A. Allen’s ministry, and countless others, I’ll leave it to the reader to decide how much time to spend on the details, but in summary we heard in the interview about 50 minutes of nothing but experiences of these two men. Wiles with the lofty experiences of him and his family members, and Sklar with his high definition visions and his luxury-class trip to heaven. The focus was entirely on spiritual experiences and how God has lifted them up to lofty positions in his church, and how they are “humbly” carrying out their Godly assignments and missions.
About 5 to 7 minutes is tacked on at the end where Sklar and Wiles both speak clearly about Christ, the cross, and the ACTUAL gospel. All in line with what deceivers do, as they come as angels of light, not wearing horns. Of course there will be some real gospel tacked on at the end.
I would like to spend some time unpacking some remarkable things Paul taught the church at Corinth. I think it speaks volumes about what we see with many of these false internet ministries today, and fits perfectly with this rather typical Wiles interview we are dealing with which was given on this so-called Christian radio show.
Paul To the Church At Corinth: “Beware of the Super-Apostles”
In 2 Corinth. Chap. 11 Paul puts out a very powerful word to the church about those who were coming to destroy the work done by Paul in planting the church there, and the work of the real apostles. These false apostles came in the name of Christ, and said all the right things to be believed, but their focus in a subtle way took Paul’s beloved congregation at Corinth away from the Lord and onto themselves.
I marvel at Paul’s use of biting sarcasm at many points in his letters to Corinth. He calls these false apostles “super apostles.” (2 Cor. 11:5, 2 Cor. 12:11)
These false apostles use their spiritual experiences, or at least their versions of these events, to boast and lift themselves up. These super apostles in the apostolic age would go into the church as soon as Paul left, and undo what truth had been laid down, and replace it with error. Nowhere more than at Corinth did this happen. There are many parallels to be seen between the church at Corinth and the modern day church’s lifting up of signs and wonders. As we will see clearly from Paul, this was not minor error that needed just a superficial adjustment, it was core error that was threatening to take the church away from Christ.
In 2 Cor. Chap. 11 verses. 7 to 15 Paul is outlining the contrast between the true apostles and the false apostles, who had come in claiming to be of Christ but who were not. The contrast Paul makes between the true and false apostles is to show that the true apostles were grounded in three things: truth, love, and humility. A true apostle will be humble to the point of being self-effacing. Just look at a teacher’s life. As John MacArthur points out:
Just look when you’re assessing whether someone is a true or a false teacher. Do you see humility or do you see pride? Do you see a person sacrificing his life to give away the truth with only regard for service to others? Or do you see one who is building an empire, building an estate, becoming rich, one who is parading his…his authority, one who is always right, one who demands that we bow before him, one who wants almost to be worshiped and adored? Those are the questions. *
When I read Paul’s letter to Corinth, and apply these standards here, I see clearly who is being lifted up by these men, and its not Christ. It is themselves. Please refer to my previous article on Maurice Sklar, where he describes his “visit to heaven” in revealing detail. Since he brought it up again, I guess it means he wants us to have another look at it. Some excerpts of his journey to heaven:
……….. we reached a flat plateau overlooking what looked like the Swiss or Bavarian Alps. It was covered with perfectly manicured grass. We were standing in front of a golden gate that had filigree work all over it. Over the top was my name: “Maury Sklar” engraved in that same kind of stone/glass/gold on a rectangular plate. It was covered with precious stones and shimmered and glittered in the late afternoon sun. I was in awe!……..
…………….To one side, there was a vault-like door, and in it were dozens of great stringed instruments. Some had been made for me, and one place was open, where the Lord had promised me that He would make a violin for me and I could watch, after I get there to heaven!…………..
……………..He seemed like a Man now, though I knew He was the LORD. He said to me, “Maury, I want you to see the Great Hall of the Crowns.” Suddenly, we were at a large castle of some sort. It looked like Buckingham Palace, Versailles, and the Taj Mahal all at the same time. (I know that sounds strange, but that is what it looked like to me.) I was stunned at the majesty of this building……………
……………..The angel quietly spoke in my ear. This is a concert in your honor. The composer, Gustav Mahler is here in heaven. He has composed a symphony for you. Then the Lord came out on stage and conducted! As he entered, the whole audience bowed in worship and reverenced His Presence. Then, when the music started, I went into a realm of ecstasy that I cannot describe in words. But the music was like a living movie or a vision. I listened and I saw many good things that I had done to love people on earth…………………….
The readers can safely decide for themselves who is being lifted up here. Is this not the same phenomenon Paul was dealing with in the church in Corinth and the invasion of the super apostles? The lifting up of one’s spiritual experiences, the exaltation of self, the boasting, all of these things are from the enemy Satan. These false teachers are not just misguided people with error in their doctrine, they are agents of the devil. Paul is saying that they are more than just gifted windbags, they are emissaries of Satan.
Paul didn’t pull any punches in speaking out about these types, because he knew how dangerous they are. When a man is full of himself, there is little room for the spirit of God to dwell in him.
13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds. …..2 Cor. 11:13-15
Paul doesn’t care about being politically correct, and fears not to offend the sensibilities of those listening. Imagine the impact this had on those false teachers when his letters were read in the church. We need to emulate Paul, in that we need to take a stand against demonic influences taking hold in the church today. So many today recognize the error, but are so daunted by the possibility of being called a blasphemer of the Holy Spirit, they look the other way. The signs and wonder movement has made such inroads and gained so much territory and influence in the church in the past 100 years, that they are to an alarming extent able to control and prevent any serious opposition from forming against them and their movement.
If you speak out, realize that you will be called out as one who spreads disunity among the flock. You will be called a person with a “vendetta” against God’s anointed. Even those who normally have good discernment skills will say you are denying the “power” of the Holy Spirit. But lets use Paul as our guide in these matters: he refused to boast about his spiritual experiences, but instead happily boasted of his weaknesses.
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 2 Cor. 11:20
But Paul was very glad to speak of his weaknesses. He knew the folly of boasting of one’s deeds and experiences after seeing the resurrected Lord. He is free in telling all he is a former blasphemer, a persecutor, a murderer, an enemy of Jesus Christ. What Paul doesn’t want to do is boast about his credentials. And he could have easily done so. But instead, in verses 22 to 29, Paul tells of his hardships endured. Shipwrecks, lashings, hunger, thirst, cold, exposure, toil, hardship. Even being let down in a basket to escape Damascus. Paul is saying “I will boast of those things which show my weakness.”
Paul “Boasts”, So That Corinth Will See the Error of Boasting
I must go on boasting. Though there is nothing to be gained by it, I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. 3 And I know that this man was caught up into paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter. 5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses— 6 though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 2 Cor. Chapter 12 v.1-6
In further exhibition of his ability to use emphatic language that really “bites” and impacts the listener, here Paul is actually “boasting” in order to compare righteous boasting for the glory of God, to the destructive boasting of the false teachers about their spiritual experiences.
Of all the men there, Paul had the most reason to boast of his spiritual experiences. He had actually been lifted up to heaven. He amazingly describes this in the third person. Its only by verse 7 that we realize he is referring to himself and his experience! He refuses to give detail, not even saying if it was in body or spirit when he was lifted up! Contrast this to modern day accounts of “trips to heaven” and the intricate detail we are given by those who would exalt themselves in the telling of these things.
Another sharp contrast between Paul and what today’s false teachers do. Paul’s lifting up to heaven had occurred fourteen years before. Can a modern day “prophet” or “apostle” not even speak a word about an experience like this for fourteen years? And even then, Paul was very reluctantly speaking of it to hammer home a point to a church that was losing the gospel of Christ to the visions and signs.
On top of this is the fact that there is serious doubt about the truthfulness of modern stories of trips to heaven, but that’s another topic altogether. Paul simply closes the book on what must have been a truly wondrous event, by saying he heard things “which man must not utter”. (2 Cor. 12:5) No lifting up of self here, no prideful bragging about “look what God did for me.” Quite the opposite: ……. “we must not speak of such things. ”
………..if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me.
Paul really had good reason to boast, and it would have been entirely truthful if he had done so, but he underlines the point that we are not to raise up our experiences high onto lofty places, lest no man then exalt the man and the experience. What a lesson for today’s false teachers. Then Paul in my view really makes an emphatic statement by telling that he would rather boast about the thorn sent to him:
v. 7-10 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Three times the great Apostle Paul prayed that God would remove the thorn, and God did not relent. What a blow to the gospel of “name it and claim it!” What a blow to the word faith healers like Benny Hinn! Who had more faith than Paul, who had seen the resurrected Christ on the road to Damascus? The idea that God’s GRACE is sufficient really grinds in the ears of the false teachers.
The end result: Paul glorified God in taking the suffering as God’s way of preventing him from becoming boastful! Today’s false teachers do exactly the opposite: they use spiritual experiences in order that they may be exalted by their fellow church members! In this personal uplifting, church members are steered away from Jesus Christ, and onto doctrines of man.
The church at Corinth was so much like today’s church. Common distinguishing markers were infatuation with the spiritual gifts, and esteeming one another by the measure of each other’s spiritual experiences. Paul saw so much disorder at Corinth he had to implement rules about orderly conduct. (1 Cor. 14:33)
Paul had to step in and make rules to tame the unruly and unholy desire to make the gifts the center of the church. He ruled that only two, and at most three, should speak in tongues at a service. Only one could speak at a time. Another must always interpret what is spoken in a manner intelligible to the members. (1 Cor. 14:27-28)
How this rule is openly flaunted by churches today! Any church, and by extension, any internet ministry, that conducts itself in a chaotic manner is to be avoided. Jumping from one story line to another is one example of discord and confusion we see with many of the news/gospel programs on the air today. Fifty minutes of human experience mixed with 5 minutes of gospel, and a Christian label attached to it, is standard fare, and lapped up like milk by the followers, when it is actually spiritual poison. These are things that are sewn from the seeds of Satan’s attack on the modern day church, and as demonic influences they have made huge inroads and scored big successes.
Since the closing of the Canon of scripture, Satan has been focusing his schemes on ways to steer men away from the gospel, because only by doing so can he claim victory. Satan is totally comfortable with today’s Christian “visions and dreams” ministries. Satan wins every time he can steal an hour of a person’s time by having them listen to man-centered doctrine concerning trivia such as visions of earthquakes, tsunamis, suitcase nukes, nephilim, Obama’s communist leanings, or whatever the soup-de-jour of the Rick Wiles-Steve Quayle-Nathan Leal gang happens to be on any given day.
How powerfully Paul puts this to the church in Cor. 11 verses 3 and 4.
3 But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.
Here Paul is talking about some men who had come into the church, supposedly possessing a higher authority, a higher pedigree, a higher experience. They were preaching another gospel, another Jesus, another spirit. Here we see Satan at work, leading the church away from her steadfast devotion to Christ. These were people who sounded like apostles, and seemed to say all the right things, but were actually leading people astray.
“And You Put Up With It Readily Enough”
And with his biting sarcasm, Paul drills home the point by saying “and you put up with it readily enough.”
So many today think that Pentecost and the early days of the church was a time where the “outpouring” of the Holy Spirit had caused such an emotional stir that it lent an air and attitude of wide openness and permissiveness in points of doctrine. That it was a time when “anything goes” and “just let the spirit lead you where it will” were the guiding affections. Quite the opposite was true. The doctrine of the church was set, in the person and work of Christ, as expounded by the apostles. Nowhere was it acceptable to adapt the Christian faith to go in any direction that the believer “felt led.”
The way the foundations of the church were laid down it was never intended to be a free-for-all where anyone who claimed to have the spirit could just say whatever he wanted to.
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. Acts 2
But soon the “super apostles” led the church away from its foundational roots because of a fascination with gifts and personal power. The false apostles hated Paul because they hated the message he brought of humility and suffering for the gospel. “We’re a power Jesus” they cried. There was little place in this boasting, super Christian mentality for the suffering of the cross. They had this other gospel, this new way of relating to God, and a magnetic and alluring wonder-worker fervor had settled in through the satanic false teachers. And thus, they had little tolerance for Paul’s message of “strength in weakness,” thinking it foolishness.
In reading these remarkable verses, we see in Corinth they were already breaking away from the gospel of the cross, and setting up this new regime which was far from Christ-centered. It was man-centered and focused on the evaluation of each man in the church according to the perceived value of his spiritual gifts and experiences, and the elevation of each to that particular level of supposed spiritual attainment.
One commentator has put it this way: “Any Corinthian with a spark of humanity, not to say Christian conviction, left in him must have blushed to see held up before him the picture of himself in his conceited self-importance and the picture of Paul and his apostolic colleagues, the despised, scorned, suffering, but undaunted servants of Christ, the church, and mankind.”
Lest anyone be deceived by the false apostles, the deceitful workers, Paul points out the folly of following anyone but Christ:
for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? 1 Cor. 3:3-4
For the foundation of faith cannot be laid on the shifting sands of human experiences, but must be laid upon the bedrock of the gospel of Jesus Christ, once for all delivered to the saints:
12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— 13 each one’s work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 1 Cor. 3:12-13
Today we see the extreme evolution of these early church errors into a prideful signs, wonders, healing, and tongues mania which is responsible for turning more souls away from Christ and the Word of God than even Satan himself could have dreamed for. The showboats with the flashiest tales of signs and wonders still rule.
And as in Corinth, we put up with it readily enough.
All blessings in Christ,
* John MacArthur – Grace To You Ministry…. “Marks of a False Apostle.”
I’m not going to continue conversing with someone who continually twists my words and rephrases my comments to suit their fancy. This seems to be a real challenge for you.
I’ve said what I was compelled to say and I’ve already said it in more ways that I should have and now I must move on.
There is a thing called “reasonable inference.” An example of reasonable inference would be the case of notorious serial killer Ted Bundy. It is not recorded that Bundy EVER said directly that he hated women. But since the record shows he murdered 30 or more of them, it is “reasonably inferred” that Ted Bundy hated women.
By your refusal to answer directly my repeated questions about your position on whether biblical standards for false prophecy should be applied to the internet prophets, I inferred that you were “unwilling to uphold biblical standards for them” That’s what is called “reasonable inference.” When a person makes no attempt to uphold something when asked specifically if he upholds it, it is reasonably inferred that such person is “unwilling” to uphold it. In no way does this amount to “slander” against you, nor is it “bearing false witness.”
You just can’t biblically support your position, so your only recourse is to claim foul. Please don’t come here again. I have given you numerous fair and open opportunities to explain yourself, including YET ANOTHER one just a moment ago, and all you do is yell foul, that I misrepresent you. I am saying, again and again, in essence, “PLEASE explain your position biblically”, and you prefer to grovel in your sense of how “unfair” this blog is to you, rather than respond biblically. What a moron you are. God forgive me for the crudeness, but you really are a moron.
The only tool you’ve got in your whole bag is yelling “foul” no matter what happens. How stale this has gotten. An educated person, when he senses he may be being misunderstood, replies with calm and points out specifically, using bullet points if necessary, where he feels misrepresented. You just lose your cool and start casting hell fire down on the offending party, and calling them liars.
I’m tired of extending to you every chance to state your position on biblical prophecy just to have you claim foul, over and over like a broken record, without ever specifically demonstrating on which points you were misrepresented. There’s more to stating one’s position than simply telling the other person that they got it wrong. All you’ve done since coming on here is claiming some great injustice has been done to you. Well, good riddance to you! Be gone with you! Never darken these doorways again.
And YES, you are unwilling to uphold the biblical test for false prophecy as it applies to the internet prophets in question, despite your completely absurd denials. Anyone reading your comments can see that you refused numerous opportunities to simply be honest and admit that you are giving the prophets a free pass from being held to the biblical standard, or else to state for all to see that you DO hold them to that standard. You did neither. Sensing you were clearly losing the discussion on biblical grounds, you decided to turn this into a personal vendetta against me. Who could possibly review your comments and think otherwise? I have neither censored nor refused to post any of your comments, even those with the most vicious attacks against me. I think the light which is in believers in Jesus Christ is enough to reveal who was the real “hit man” in this discussion.
Any time you would like to arrange a formal debate with me on internet prophecy, perhaps on You Tube, just let me know at the blog email address on the “about” page and I’ll be right there. There’s no chance you’ll be misquoted if you debate me!
And now you sign off in a huff, while declaring some kind of moral victory here? You display the infantile mind of an eight year-old playing schoolyard football, who doesn’t like the way the contest is going, so he yells “cheaters!” and takes his ball home.
Hey tsimitpo. I just found this comment you made from early 2013:
You’ve been at this for longer than I realized, using the same techniques. And yes, I posted that comment, just as I have posted every comment you have ever made.
You see folks, sadly this young man has been coming here for years and doing the exact same thing. Notice AGAIN, even back in April of 2013, tsimitpo is…. “surprise surprise”….. defending the false prophets, and at the same time denying he defends the false prophets!! (All in the same paragraph!) And of course, the personal attacks on me are standard fare, even back then. A shill for the false prophets, coming on here and doing this repeatedly? Come on, tsimitpo, you’re the one getting paid to do this, aren’t you?
This is yet another illustration of how much damage these false prophets do. I was honestly trying to point out to this man tsimitpo that it is unbiblical to think that a genuine Christian ministry can be founded on speculation, fear, dreams, visions. That is the foundational purpose of this blog. No evil can be the means to lead anyone to Christ.
This guy goes around telling people that the internet prophets Wiles/Leal/Quayle/Perez etc. are leading people to the cross, and it is a damnable lie. He uses Phil 1:15-18 to indicate God is using the internet “prophets” to bring people to salvation, but these verses simply speak of people who were preaching the gospel while their motivation was tainted by worldly desires, and they were not sincere. It is simply not credible that Paul would have been so approving of the gospel being preached by false prophets!
It is dangerous nonsense that these verses indicate false prophets are used by God to bring people to the true risen Christ. We need to follow the teachings of Jesus himself, who told us clearly “BEWARE of false prophets.” Typical of the foolishness this guy has been putting up here is the idea that God has worked out a plan to bring souls to him by using people and ministries which his Son has warned us to avoid.
Far from leading the unsaved to the cross, these people seek to impress an audience which is largely composed of Christians who are fairly new in the faith. They bring them into the seedy world of failed “prophetic dreams”, false prophecy, every kind of conspiracy theory imaginable, and directly remove them from sound gospel teaching. This all takes place at a very formative stage in the learning of many new Christians. Many never recover, and go their entire Christian lives being led about by one conspiracy theory after the other, thinking that’s the Godly Christian life, because they’ve never sat under sound teaching.
Everyone who listens to these types knows that they barely touch on preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. Really, when was the last time you heard Steve Quayle, or Rick Wiles, or Nathan Leal spent an entire hour broadcast preaching entirely from the pages of scripture?
I fear the joke has been on me, folks. I don’t know if he is a plant from the false prophetic movement itself, but he sure has a well-tuned repertoire of trying to make the Leal-Wiles crew look a lot better than they really are. How many hours I spent answering this man last week alone! I guess if you fool me twice, its shame on me. Oh, well, I don’t think I can ever really go wrong by holding up God’s word to be the full and final revelation of God to man. The judgment of the false prophets and their spokesmen does not slumber. The Lord on the final day will settle all accounts.
J.D. you have more patience than I do. All you can do is give out the truth and move on. Arguing with the deceived is fruitless. People must first have a desire for the truth and admit that they might be wrong. And indeed young Christians are especially vulnerable.
Many years ago when I heard Texe Marrs, before he was anti-semitic, exposing Billy Graham on his radio program it made me angry. His crusades on TV in the 1960’s helped lead me to salvation. I set out to prove Marrs wrong and ended up finding I was wrong. Sadly most Christians are content to remain deceived in one way or another. I guess it’s just too comfortable.
Yes, I know. I think my hair has grown even grayer if that’s possible after struggling all week to get a committed position one way or the other out of him. I see now, and after reviewing his comments from years ago, that he orchestrates all this very carefully. He knows what he is doing. He has his game plan.
This guy is a graduate of the Nathan Leal Watchmans Cry forum who still can’t see or won’t admit that these charlatans are false prophets. Our pal “tsimitpo” is really hard core. He’ll say something, and if I paraphrase even minutely he swears hell fire down on me for “blatant misrepresentation” and screams “liar”. Then I started to realize he does this even when I quote him word-for-word. Go figure.
I spend so much time on him because his ideas are very insidious and satanic. He comes on here every year or two, and tries to plant the seed in people’s minds that its sinful to go up against God’s “anointed ones”, i.e. Leal, Wiles, et al. He claims to be so certain that no matter how much error in their teachings God still uses them to bring souls to salvation. This is really an evil idea when you think about it. So we should let all kinds of false teaching infect our minds and hearts, but not to worry, God will work it all out for our good.
This is just what the false ministries want. They want everyone to let their guard down, and settle into their teachings thinking their doctrine doesn’t really matter, because, after all, God has a bigger plan for them that we can’t see on the surface. We should just settle into a nice comfort zone and let the false prophecy and conspiracy theory ooze into every pore and saturate ourselves.
Of course by the time I’ve said this, normally he’d be jumping in and cursing his head off about the blatant misrepresentation! I don’t know if he does it with everyone but when he comes on here he thinks he can just straddle the fence and not commit to any position, and nobody will notice. But actually he makes it perfectly clear where he stands. I’ve dealt with him for a long time, and he is not fooling me about where he stands, no matter how much he claims “foul.”
He insists after all these years that these internet prophets don’t fit the biblical definition of “false prophets.” He claims that’s just an “opinion” I have. Then when I point him to my articles where I give times and dates when each of these people said “thus sayeth the Lord” about dreams or visions which did not take place as the Lord supposedly stated to them, he switches to the idea that somehow its “OK” because they are bringing souls to the Lord. He is committed to the idea that we should accept this kind of prophecy because its a better alternative than having no prophecy at all, and besides, don’t we fools realize that thousands of souls are flocking to Christ under Nathan Leal’s and Rick Wiles’ teaching? Yeah, right.
If I hold up the Bible and say “here’s your prophecy” he’ll go off on a rampage declaring that I’m foolishly quenching the Spirit and hell bound for sure. But you’re right that these people won’t change because they don’t love the truth, and that’s why they stay deceived. Just like the flagship verses for this blog state: 2 Thes. 2:11-12 “They refused to love the truth, so God sends them a strong delusion.”
i commend you for exposing false prophets, JD, especially in the well-founded way you go about it, namely to base your arguments in Scripture. Keep on keeping on.. As to the counter-arguments: we cannot convince, but only try. The Holy Spirits convicts. Those who do not hear the word of the Lord & will go on with false prophecies in spite of it,will stand in judgement before Him, and it will be severe, as they have spoken falsely in His Name..
Thank you Sommie. Speaking falsely in the lord’s name is so hideous, and yet so many take it very lightly. They think they have scriptural warrant to utter words from their imaginations and label them as God’s words. There is no excuse for this, and when we stand in judgment, they will feel the full force of God’s wrath. Scripture makes it very, very clear that we are not to do this.
Thanks for visiting the blog, and may God bless.
Always have appreciated your in depth research into false teachings and teachers, prophets, etc.
Blessings Elizabeth! Thanks for the kind words. May God bless you richly.
All blessings in Christ,
Thank you for exposing these false prophets. Thank you for using scripture to ‘prove all things’! I also read another article you wrote about Rick Wiles regarding his false prophecy of a nuclear bomb coming to America in 2010. Wow! No retraction or apology from Mr. Wiles following this deceit. As long as we continue in a spirit of love and not pride we need to be watchmen and guard our hearts against heresy.
Please be careful to not use one false teacher to expose another. All the things John MacArthur lists in his above quote can be applied to he and his GTY ministry. And the most egregious: JMac’s hyper-Calvinist false gospel message straight from TULIP. I admit to becoming discouraged when I saw that quote from JMac.
Continue in love.
While I agree that TBN has many false witnesses of the Gospel, I don’t believe this is true of Rick Wiles. His heart seems genuinely dedicated to the Lord. Also, the Word tells us to share with others what the Lord has done for us. I believe this includes the words or visions that God has given. I don’t believe Rick or his daughter were operating in a self-aggrandizing way when they shared their visions/experiences of God with the public. JD, I’m sure you’ve had personal experiences with the Lord in one way or another; I believe all or most Children of the Lord do. And it is exciting to share and to hear of the experiences of others as it encourages us in our faith and it brings joy to know that the Lord is communing and communicating with His children on such a personal level. These personal testimonies are given to us for the purpose of not only edifying the church but likewise as encouragement to the non believer that God indeed exists.
Thanks for commenting. But I disagree about John MacArthur. His ministry has literally brought thousands into the kingdom. I have studied theological topics such as Calvinism for many years, and I’m quite certain MacArthur is not a hyper-Calvinist. He is a Calvinist, and they follow the general outline of T-U-L-I-P but which part of the tulip acronym do you find unbiblical? Limited Atonement is in the bible, total depravity is as well, along with all the others. “Hyper-Calvinist” is the term always used by people who want to attack Calvinists.
All blessings in Christ,